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Mortgage finance company Fannie Mae said it is forgiving the mortgage debt of a 90-year-old woman who shot herself in the chest as sheriff's deputies attempted to evict her.
Mortgage forgiven for 90-year-old who shot self
Seeded on Sun Oct 5, 2008 12:31 PM EDT
Article Source: msnbc.com- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
- Public Discussion (201)
How sad that a company can't look at the situations of the people who are losing their homes. Did they even know she was 90 and alone? Although I'm glad she will be able to live there, it saddens me how greed can blind people to any decent emotion such as compassion. I wonder how many other seniors are losing their homes that are not reported in the news.
Kudos to Fannie Mae for forgiving her mortgage.
- 1 vote
#1 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 12:31 PM EDTWhat about the middle class worker that can't pay for his house? What about the lower class worker that got a sub-prime mortgage and can't pay? Where do you draw the line? Who gets compassion for defaulting on their contracts and who doesn't?
- 1 vote
This is a better example of why the whole system crashed. This woman, in 2004 at age 86, refinanced again. The refinanced mortgage took the form of a "first" and a "line of credit" second. The Line of Credit (LOC) is by nature a variable rate loan. The Countrywide salesperson put a fixed income borrower (retirement, SSI I am assuming) on a variable rate debt. THIS SHOULD NEVER BE DONE. I expect this woman had a good credit score and "qualified" for a No-Income Verification loan. The salesperson was trying to make a living (paid on commission) and CWide allowed the loan to close because it was based f times, led us to the crash.
- 1 vote
Yes, how sad......that they (Countryside especially) took advantage of people who really couldn't afford a mortgage in the first place!
Only to make money and line their pockets (or better said, their exorbitant wages). And knowing full well these people would never be able to pay the interest AND the principle, hence; foreclosures! But they made their money first!
Yes, so now we all get to pay!
Obama worked as a Lawyer for Acorn, Acorn forced banks to give risky loans to uncreditworthy people with no money down, ie no vested interest. People with no real vested interest buy property increasing the price of real estate creating the housing bubble, and while artifially inflating the value of real estate which also increased your property tax. The republicans fought over and over for more regulation and oversight, but Andrew Mozillo, Countrywide/ Raines & Johnson of Fannie Mae along with their Counterparts and reciepients of the largest campaign contributions who are supposed to work for you the people not Fannie Mae, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, in fact all the Democratic Memebers of Congress voted against it. So Fannie sells these worthless mortgages to the Stock market and now we have a Crisis. The bad loans that should not have been made are being forclosed on and those foreclosures have now driven down the value of your property. Who wins Jim Johnson/Franklin Raines who made millions from Fannie Mae & The recipients of campaign contribushions , Dodd , Obama, Frank, Angelo Mozilo owner of Countrywide who did his bailout by selling his stock before things really got bad THEY SHOULD ALL BE IN PRISON. Who are the losers, You the American Taxpayer who has to pay for the Bailout that the Dems not only rushed to push through, (Jeez they wanted to help a Lame Duck Republican President) .We can blame it on Wall Street Greed like any one who buys an investment they bought it in droves because they were led to believe it was sound and insured . And now your Retirement Fund your 401K is not worth S***, So when you open your earnings report and go to vote in Nov. remember who got you into this mess.
- 4 votes
Forgive the mortgage? They just gave the house to her? Ok, maybe they could let her live in the house and figure they can get their money back when she eventually sells or dies. But now what happens? Her heirs get a house free and clear? And we all get to pay for it?
Is that how this bailout thing is going to work? They are just going to start giving things away? If somebody can't make their payments, you just give it to them? What kind of message does that send? What about all the other struggling people? They are going to be walking in to offices going: "But you let her have her home, why not me? Do I have to shoot myself, too?"
And while the mortgage industry disgusts me (I used to change the radio channel every time I heard a mortgage ad came on) the bottom line is that there is a percentage of the population that is just plain irresponsible. They will do stupid things, make stupid financial decisions and spend more money than they make if there is a way to do it. Basically we have to have a system that doesn't let stupid people be stupid.
I have family members in similar situations. I know how much they make and how they spend and they dug their own hole. I suspect most of the people in trouble did, too. Now I am supposed to feel sorry for them and pay to bail them out. Or at least pay interest on the debt to bail them out. Well, I guess we might borrow to cover that interest, too, so maybe I won't have to pay it after all. Somebody is going to get screwed though.
I blame the Democrats who wanted the financial industry to loan money to unqualified borrowers.
- 2 votes
I would be concerned about her just going back to her house alone at age 90, trying to heal physically from shooting herself, and apparently with a mental state that is so unraveled that she would harm herself when things go wrong. It doesn't sound like she has anyone to help her.
On the one hand, I understand it because she's so old and has no way at that age to earn money and pay off what she owes, plus she should never have been given such a loan at that age. On the other hand, the message is sent that if you get desperate enough, shoot yourself and maybe you (or your survivors if you die) will get to keep your house.
Anyway, it sounds to me like this woman actually does need nursing home care, as much as I hate to say it because nursing homes are disgusting.
Having read every post in this seed up to this time both above this and below this, I have the following to say:
The majority of the comments made here absolutely sickens me. I am so disgusted with what I have read that I feel I need to be scrubbed down as though I were contaminated with a radioactive material.
I am in fact, at this very moment ashamed that I am even an American. This has got to be one of the saddest commentaries on what the American society has become I have ever seen in over 40 years of life as an American. If this is the prevailing attitude of the majority of our country, then this country DESERVES whatever comes its way at this point.
America is divided, thoroughly and completely. Is today the day our country died? It very well feels like it to me.
- 2 votes
90 years old and at eighty forced to refinanced her home. This is sick, this woman had paid for her home once and due to the greed of the congress at that time and the predatory finance institutions , this elderly woman became a product of the out of control paper tiger economy. A government who rewarded greed and corruption while cutting programs for the elderly and handicapped.
This woman, and her deceased husband were the back bone of our prosperity durring the heyday of our industrial productive economy. A time when wars were fought for ideals, not oil. A time when 20 years at one job, and a pride in ones work. A time when the USA supplied the world with products and our ideals.
As a country we have abandoned the greatest generation and replaced it with the me first and to hell with every one else attitude.
Yes we became the enemy that our grand parents fought against, and left to find a better life. We are no longer a nation of Americans, but a nation of self righteous, harm all, and without regard for each other.
Claiming we are a god fearing god loving country is a joke. We use the church as an excuse, we choose the church once we have harmed, not for the spiritual enlightening.
How dare any one claim this was the woman's fault, and that she is incapable of caring for her self. She cared for her self and tried to support her self. It isn't her fault it is all of ours.
So carry your Pro life banners and tell every one how you want to preserve life. As with most of you this is just political posturing and a false illusion of love for life.
I agree with JaRagga, this country has become a bunch of whiners, losers and pigs. I too after reading some of these comments , have became ashamed of my country. I might even change my NV name.
Unbelievable!!!!!
- 1 vote
Yes Peggy, I certainly will remember who got me there. But you seem to forgot to mention this:
The general co-chairman of John McCain’s presidential campaign, former Sen. Phil Gramm (R-Texas), led the charge in 1999 to repeal a Depression-era banking regulation law that Democrat Barack Obama claimed on Thursday contributed significantly to today’s economic turmoil.
“A regulatory structure set up for banks in the 1930s needed to change because the nature of business had changed,” the Illinois senator running for president said in a New York economic speech. “But by the time [it] was repealed in 1999, the $300 million lobbying effort that drove deregulation was more about facilitating mergers than creating an efficient regulatory framework.”
Gramm’s role in the swift and dramatic recent restructuring of the nation’s investment houses and practices didn’t stop there.
A year after the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act repealed the old regulations, Swiss Bank UBS gobbled up brokerage house Paine Weber. Two years later, Gramm settled in as a vice chairman of UBS’s new investment banking arm.
Later, he became a major player in its government affairs operation. According to federal lobbying disclosure records, Gramm lobbied Congress, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department about banking and mortgage issues in 2005 and 2006.
During those years, the mortgage industry pressed Congress to roll back strong state rules that sought to stem the rise of predatory tactics used by lenders and brokers to place homeowners in high-cost mortgages.
For his work, Gramm and two other lobbyists collected $750,000 in fees from UBS’s American subsidiary. In the past year, UBS has written down more than $18 billion in exposure to sub-prime loans and other risky securities and is considering cutting as many as 8,000 jobs.
And this: McCain should look first to his campaign staffers as the cause of that debacle. One of them was Fannie Mae's head of lobbying, and spread tens of millions of dollars around Washington in the form of lobbying contracts. A number of McCain staffers were on the receiving end of those contracts, collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars each from the lenders to rep their interests. And McCain's campaign manager served as president of a lobbying association that fought to protect Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae from the sort of regulation that McCain is now proposing.
And this:
And other current McCain campaign staffers were the lobbyists receiving shares of that money. According to the Senate Lobbying Database, the lobbying firm of Charlie Black, one of McCain's top aides, made at least $820,000 working for Freddie Mac from 1999 to 2004. The McCain campaign's vice-chair Wayne Berman and its congressional liaison John Green made $1.14 million working on behalf of Fannie Mae for lobbying firm Ogilvy Government Relations. Green made an additional $180,000 from Freddie Mac. Arther B. Culvahouse Jr., the VP vetter who helped John McCain select Sarah Palin, earned $80,000 from Fannie Mae in 2003 and 2004, while working for lobbying and law firm O'Melveny & Myers LLP. In addition, Politico reports that at least 20 McCain fundraisers have lobbied for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, pocketing at least $12.3 million over the last nine years.
And this:
For years McCain campaign manager Rick Davis was head of the Homeownership Alliance, a lobbying association that included Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, real estate agents, homebuilders, and non-profits. According to Politico, the organization opposed congressional attempts at regulation of Fannie and Freddie, along the lines of what John McCain is currently proposing. In his capacity of president of the group, Davis went on record in 2003 and insisted that no further reform of the lenders was necessary, in contradiction to his current boss's sentiments. "[Fannie and Freddie] are subject to an innovative and stringent risk-based capital stress test," Davis wrote. "The toughest in the financial services industry."
At a campaign rally Wednesday morning in Fairfax, Virginia, John McCain said that the heads of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ought to give back the millions of dollars they've earned. What about the lobbyists who helped Fannie and Freddie game the system? Maybe McCain can ask them — at the next campaign strategy meeting.
And this:
McCain campaign manager lied about his Freddie Mac lobbying
rollcall.com — Rick Davis, McCain's campaign manager, was receiving $15,000 *per month* until last month from Freddie Mac for lobbying work. On Sunday, when it was reported that he had received money from both Freddie and Fannie for lobbying, Davis claimed to have no involvement with the companies for several years. This finding shows Mr. Davis was lying.
And this: Yes Peggy, I certainly remember who got me in this mess. It really is a shame that you like Palin, don't have a clue to what started it all and who has been in the forefront of pushing it through, way back to 1986-87. And I seen it coming and protected the majority of my savings. It is a pity that you seem to not have had any insight there also. And as far as those that bought into the sup-prime loans that their banks were promoting, I do not feel for them either, as they let themselves be talked into them without the due diligence of even getting counseling from a Real Estate Attorney. Which may have cost them a couple of thou in following through, but they would have then gone into these loans fully knowing the score and be somewhat prepared for what could happen. Just remember how many more will fall in January, when the sub-prime adjusts for the second time. And now The Republican Governor from the sanctuary State of California wants a $7 billion dollar bailout. Who's next??
And this:
Keating 5 ring a bell?
McCain's past collides with the present Wall Street debacle.
Once upon a time, a politician took campaign contributions and favors from a friendly constituent who happened to run a savings and loan association. The contributions were generous: They came to about $200,000 in today's dollars, and on top of that there were several free vacations for the politician and his family, along with private jet trips and other perks. The politician voted repeatedly against congressional efforts to tighten regulation of S&Ls, and in 1987, when he learned that his constituent's S&L was the target of a federal investigation, he met with regulators in an effort to get them to back off.
That politician was John McCain, and his generous friend was Charles Keating, head of Lincoln Savings & Loan. While he was courting McCain and other senators and urging them to oppose tougher regulation of S&Ls, Keating was also investing his depositors' federally insured savings in risky ventures. When those lost money, Keating tried to hide the losses from regulators by inducing his customers to switch from insured accounts to uninsured (and worthless) bonds issued by Lincoln's near-bankrupt parent company. In 1989, it went belly up -- and more than 20,000 Lincoln customers saw their savings vanish.
Keating went to prison, and McCain's Senate career almost ended. Together with the rest of the so-called Keating Five -- Sens. Alan Cranston (D-Calif.), John Glenn (D-Ohio), Don Riegle (D-Mich.) and Dennis DeConcini (D-Ariz.), all of whom had also accepted large donations from Keating and intervened on his behalf -- McCain was investigated by the Senate Ethics Committee and ultimately reprimanded for "poor judgment."
But the savings and loan crisis mushroomed. Eventually, the government spent about $125 billion in taxpayer dollars to bail out hundreds of failed S&Ls that, like Keating's, fell victim to a combination of private-sector greed and the "poor judgment" of politicians like McCain.
The $125 billion seems like small change compared to the $700-billion price tag for the Bush administration's proposed Wall Street bailout. But the root causes of both crises are the same: a lethal mix of deregulation and greed.
Have a GREAT evening. Sleep well if you can, I know I will.
Obama/Biden in 2008 and beyond. Yes THEY can! Yes WE can!!
P.S.
The ones I do feel for, are those that up to 6-8 months ago,invested in money market funds, who had their retirement funds tied up there, and the others who lost their 401K savings, and some ended up in the hedge funds. The people above really conned them for years, all the while knowing the this type of investing would eventually fail, due to being unregulated and having no transparency due to The Republican Party with a little help from President Clinton. Although with all that was happening, Pres. Clinton did leave a 3 Trillion Dollar Surplus. Wonder what happened to that, don't you?
If you want more info on McCain and his cronies and what they did to cause this mess, just ask, I have tons of it on record, straight from the Federal Records and the Campaign Records. You really ought to do a little more research before stating an opinion on one side or the other. Again, especially when you are pointing the finger at only one of them.
- 1 vote
Ralph, excellent post and agree with almost everything you said. There's alot of blame to go around and at this point does it really matter. The repeal of the Seagall-Glass bill was the lynch pin that sped the coaster down the track......it would have happened any way, but doubtful would have effected so many.
The equity in my house has shrunk due to the lax lending limits that allowed the prices to be driven up only to come crashing down. My 401k has depreciated over 30% and I did not take a subprime, Alt A (liar) or even an adjustable loan. This will effect alot more people before its said and done including those without a house, mortgage or 401K. So while I applaud your foresight and agree with your insights on where our future must begin (Obama), it wouldn't kill you to sound a little less glib.
Old saying is you catch more flies with honey than sh*t.
If I shoot myself, will fannie mae forgive my mortgage debt?
- 3 votes
#2 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 12:34 PM EDT
Only if you upstage a 90 y.o. woman that shot herself in the chest. Aim for your head.
- 6 votes
Try it and see .... You people have no compassion and you only think about yourselves ...
- 1 vote
I think everyone over the age of 65 should have their mortgage debt and car payments forgiven...is that compassionate enough? Richie; now, can I raise your taxes? Oh, while we're at it, everyone gets free healthcare....now that's compassion!
If they worked, and helped our country by contributing to our economy, I say yes!!
Those who are handicapped should also be allowed to live a decent life.
I am over fifty and have no desire to retire, but as long as I am paying taxes, paying for our seniors and the less fortunate is my obligation to my country. I should not be obligated to pay for bridges to no where, and other wasteful spending.
Remember these retirees made these companies what they are now, and they should be rewarded accordingly.
- 1 vote
Where was her family in all this? Kids, Grand kids, Nieces etc. It dosn't sould like she was abandoned by the system rather her family.
JA perhaps but why worry about it. If you do the job right you wont have to worry about your mortgage, just a plot
- 1 vote
90 years old and being evicted????? There is something seriously wrong with the basic humanity in this country!
- 1 vote
Why do older people not have to play by the same rules as everyone else? She defaulted on her bills and the company took action. NO special circumstances for anyone...that's real equality.
- 2 votes
That woman was living in that house for more than 30 years, alone since her husband died. Where would she had gone if the eviction took place? Can't get a job, fixed income, and nowhere to go. Yeah, she put herself in debt, but probably to help pay for other bills (taxes, water, utilities, food). If the same happened to you, at least you would be able to bounce back. She has no bounce left in her. What would be your next comment? That she should die? I believe in equality (something this country lacks), but I strongly believe in compassion.
- 5 votes
Prof
You should be happy she is in her home trying to make ends meet, you could be paying if she was in a nursing home with full time medical staff...Think about what you say before saying it...
- 1 vote
It's all a Catch 22 when you look at it. The poor 90-year-old lady should have never been allowed to re-finance her home. However, there is a loan that allows you to take equity from the home, which she should have been allowed to do. Of course, upon death, the bank owns the home, but at least she could have pulled from the the equity (I believe it's called a Reverse Mortgage.) That would be OK.
This loan was set-up, IMHO, as nothing more than predatory lending, and the "heart string gotcha in this article," that an "elderly person" was targeted -- out of nothing more than pure greed.
How many more like this to come? It's anybody's guess. Let me tell you why. We have an 85-year-old in our family, that my husband and I pay his rent every month (to the tune of $650). Why? Because if we didn't, he'd be out on the street.
Our elderly didn't "expect" to live into their 80's, much less their 90's, and they didn't plan as well as they should have, and many are "not" financially savvy for the most part for a "variety" of reasons; #1 being that "most" felt social security would always take care of them because the way it was originally designed, it "should have."
This is a "bigger problem" than most people realize, until it hits your family and "your" pocketbook.
Again, Catch22, Double-Edged Sword, how ever you want to look at it ....
- 6 votes
I'm paying for her to stay in her house now esentially if the forgive her mortgage. The money is still owed. Who is going to cover that? One way or another she is getting taxpayer money. At least in a medical facility, that is government sponsored and my tax dollars are already slated for that purpose.
Jay...
Yeah, she put herself in debt,
That's the only fact that matters. No special circumstances! Most people losing thier houses put themselves in debt. So they should all shoot themselves now to get their mortgages cleared? Just because she is 90 does not mean there is no place for her to go.
Where do you draw the compassion line? families with kids? someone who is sick? why just because she is old and put herself in debt do the rules she agreed to not apply to her?
- 2 votes
I'm not even 30 years old yet so I can't even imagine what it's like to own a place for 30 years. So what, she had debt given her situation I'm glad the bank showed heart. I think a majority of the elderly mortgages should be forgiven. Jay-307515 is absolutely right. Where would they go? How would they survive? What jobs are out there for someone that’s 90? Most people can't find jobs at 20.
- 6 votes
No matter how you look at it now, the 90-year-old will continue to "exist" on taxpayer money. Let her stay in her house, which the taxpayer now eats her mortgage, or move her into subsidized housing, also at taxpayers expense.
The woman is on welfare (at taxpayers expense). She's friggin' 90-years old and she's flat out broke! She's on Medicare, and she just shot herself. Who's paying for her health care? The taxpayer? When she's released from the hospital into "extended care?" Who's paying for that? The taxpayer .... Hmmm, a recurring, resounding theme ...
Where's the story here??? I must have missed something .....
How long do you all think she is going to live? When she dies the mortgage company will own the house and sell it, in reality they are not losing any more money than taking it now. It is just a delay, and one that will probably work in their favor considering the current housing market. In a few years they may actually recoup more of the money.
There are people out there that make a living preying on the elderly. They go after those who don't know all the current laws, are alone and scared or have had their mental capacity diminish slightly over time. My mother works with the elderly and the stories are enough to sicken even the hard hearted. It's indecent. Not everyone still has living family to help them.
Most of these people didn't expect to live this long. Many pensions have gone bankrupt through the years. Prices have skyrocketed for even basic things like food and heat but their social security has not increased to deal with the disparity. It's easy to sit behind your computer and judge these people, with no real understanding of their situations.
We are all going to get older, and unless something is done about these people who prey on the elderly (insurance providers, banks, etc), like it or not that could be you.
- 3 votes
"No matter how you look at it now, the 90-year-old will continue to "exist" on taxpayer money. Let her stay in her house, which the taxpayer now eats her mortgage, or move her into subsidized housing, also at taxpayers expense"; said Sandra.
But the subsidized housing does not happen until everything she owns, built up through a long life, would have to be completely liquidated. That is such a wonderful thing to look forward to. Spending your entire life as a self-sufficient member of society and then you simply live too long and lose everything, even your dignity!
- 2 votes
Profchaos,
She choose to shoot herself because she felt there was no other option but to die with nothing else left for her. She did not expect anyone to feel sorry for her and give the her mortgage. She failed to end her life and Fannie Mae did what they felt was the right thing to do.
Try putting yourself in her place and feel the pain both ways, no house and a gunshot wound at age 90. This was not something this elderly lady had planned to do to get a free house.
Selfishly envy will get you nowhere, more compassion and understanding is something you're obviously lacking. You could end up in the same situation at some point and time.
- 2 votes
Chapin, yes, that's correct. All assets must be liquidated. My bad.
If the truth be known it was probabley a preditory lender hired and working for Countrywide, that sucked her into an equity loan to refinance, that he took $5,000 - to $10,000+ off the top for his commission. No decent lender in their right mind would give a seventy year old let alone a ninety year old a fixed or any mortgage. She should have been offered a FHA reverse mortgage but that doesn't pay a high commission as the junk loans that were pushing. Those sleaze ball lenders should be put in jail. Defrauding the elderly is twice the penalty in my state! Loan companies know who they are!! Can't sue them! Most of them are filing bankruptcy and are being foreclosed on now because they had nothing invested either.
- 3 votes
I hope to live to the day that something catastrophic happens to you then I will Laugh HA HA
It is stupid to blame a 70 year old woman trying to obtain some money to live out the remainder of her life. Probably her husband had managed all of her financial affairs until he passed away. I know very few married women in their 70's or 80's that take care of financial matters. They are from a generation that husbands took care of the financial well being of the family. Normally it would be nice for children to help at this point but non are mentioned in the article. So the next natural place to lay blame is the lenders. There probably weren't reverse mortgages in 1997. That is a shame because that would have been the route to go. Even without such it would have greatly been to the advantage of fannie-mae(and us) to defer reposession until the woman had to be admitted to a nursing home. Now they have given up all rights to the home by forgiving her mortgage(at our expense) because they feel the need for some positive public relations. When she reaches the point of needing nursing home care the state will take her home away to pay for her nursing care. So either way she loses her home in the end.
I wish I could tell her to sell her house asap. Set aside 1/2 the sale price to pay rent for the rest of her life and go on a nice vacation with the other half. That wouldn't be 1/1000th as bad as what our government has done to us.
- 1 vote
i find it very sad that our elderly are prey, many are like this 90 yr old woman , have paid for years on very little ss. , I think its a darn shame that a company did that too her knowing she could not pay. These elderly are spending most there income on monthly prescriptions that medicare doesn't cover, You see people not retiring anymore til they are made, why cause they can't make it with ss alone, this is what we have to look forward too. I foresee alot suicides in the near future, very sad !
- 1 vote
I have mixed views of this story. I am saddened by the fact that a 90 year old single woman would be in a situation where her house of 38 years was being foreclosed. The fact that she would attempt suicide is frightening. I think Fannie Mae made a good choice in this situation. The concern is the precedence it sets for others. Does this mean that all 90 year-olds who are single should have their mortgages forgiven? Does this mean that if anyone wants to keep their home they should attempt suicide? There are implications to any decision that has been or will be made. We are writing the script for a new U. S. of A. I just hope that script includes a few critical elements:
1. A level of freedom that makes us the best place in the world to live
2. Individual accountability and responsibility for our choices and decisions
3. Accountability for businesses providing mortgages to people who do not really qualify
4. A new view on credit and debt by our society, such that discretionary spending exceeding discretionary income is not the norm
5. Our federal government provides leadership by following 4 above.
6. Less government intervention and more freedom of choice.
#5 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 12:47 PM EDTWOW..is this what it's coming down too? Now that this news has been broadcasted, just think of how many more people are going to hurt or maybe even kill themselves thinking that they too can get mortgage forgiven! This is disgusting! Noone should be bailed out because they can't pay their mortgage, maybe they should not have signed papers for a mortgage they couldn't afford and they would know this if they read before they signed, that sooner or later they would not beable to afford the hick in their mortgage. People need to stop living above their means and stop trying to live up to the Jones...They are the ones that got us into this mess in the first place along with the loan officers that said "sure you can afford this"!
Glad I'm not in this mess! But I know that my children will have to pay for it later and that really pi$$e$ me off!
Thanks!
#6 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 12:58 PM EDTWhat an outrage! I too have compassion for the 90 yr. old lady, but by the sounds of her financial history it seems to me she was living beyond her means (irresponsibly) and thats what got her in that situation. But people like myself who follow the rules and do everything right get F---ed as usual. And don't give Fannie Mae too much praise, because the only reason they forgave her mortgage is because they are getting the money back from the $700 Billion Bailout Bill that was passed. It just sickens me! Rules are rules and everyone should have to follow them.
- 1 vote
#7 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 1:10 PM EDTSusie, I believe Fannie and Freddie were bailed out by our government "before" the Bailout Plan.
Part of the "reason" for the Bailout according to one of my Senators (in a canned email in which he responsed) is because those financial institutions now holding these defunct loans, would not "voluntarily change" the loans because they were "afraid" of being "sued." The "Bailout" will now protect these SCOUNDRELS from litigation so they can re-write these loans.
If I were you, I'd be just a "little" more madder now ;)
I think the blame here should be on the bank that financed the last mortgage she received. The loan officer should have denied it and let her know that she wasn't able to pay for it, or looked at future responsibilties that she might have and not being able to support a monthly payment..
I know at the moment my grandparents are struggling to make ends meet and they are 80. My grandfater has a Teamster retirement and my grandmother from the hospital she worked in for 30 years and they are having a hard time just meeting their property tax every 3 months on the house they own and with medical/medicine bills showing up every week.
So I feel for this lady, but also blame the bank loan officer..
- 2 votes
#8 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 1:22 PM EDTThat loan officer was probably reveiving threatening letters from the leftovers from the Janet Reno Justice Department saying lend to her or else, just like 10s of thousands of other bank loan officers. Community Development lending and Community Banking. What a crock! Now I (AND you) are buying this old lady a house? giomme a break!
I think it is terrible that a women 90 years old had to shot herself to get someones attention. What would I do if I was that age probable do the same thing if I need food meds and no where to go. I think we should demand the goverment to prove to us where all this money is going, and why, we should write our congressmen 5 times a day if that is what it takes to get their attention. we all sit back and do noting myself included, but enough is enough. I e-mailed the white house yesterday and got a respond in 2 seconds, SORRY we are so backloged can not answer right now. we elect these people into office, we don't have to elect them again
#9 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 1:24 PM EDTWell, how incredibly generous of Fannie Mae! Now that this poor 90 year-old woman has shot herself, I would imagine her life is considerably shortened, and Fannie Mae will most certainly be able to reclaim her house in short order. Shame on them.
- 1 vote
#11 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 1:28 PM EDTThis is disgusting. I think it is horrible that it took a person killing themself to get out of debt. However, I do agree that the mortgage company is to blame here. They should not be lending money to people who obviously cannot afford it.
What about the people who work themselves to death, trying to pay a mortgage they actually CAN afford, raising families? Is it fair that they have to go without paying for food to pay said mortgages? It does happen. I don't think the elderly should be exempt. Rules are rules.
To bail out Fannie Mae is disturbing to me as well. We, as citizens and taxpayers, PAID to bail out the very companies that are villified. The way I see it, ALL of us own Fannie Mae now. However we will get nothing in return for being forced to use our hard earned money to do this.
#12 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 1:34 PM EDTI am so tired of people saying if you can"t pay maybe you should not have bought the home. I have been living in my home for 10 years and was making my payments on time every month like everyone else, then 2 years ago I lost my job. You go from a job that pays $20 an hour back down to minimum wadge it gets ruff. I was working in a milk processing plant and tried to get another job in plant work but most would not hire because they want the younger generation working there.Yes i do know that you are not to discriminate because of age but there is always an excuse of "they were better qualified for the job".Yeah right!!!! Now I am 52 and in the processes of filing for foreclosure because I can't meet my payments, or my payments are late because I have to decide do I want gas, electric, and water this month or not.Ohhhhhhhhh and the letters that my lender, "Chase Home finance" sends that tell you are you if your having problem due to job loss or what ever let us help .......BIG JOKE!!!!! The 3 phrases they like to use are "it's not my problem","do what you have to do", and my all time favorite "deal with it!". I will agree some people went way beyond what they could afford in reality...but some of us just came upon some hard times. This lady was 90 people..maybe she didn't even know what she was getting herself into by refinancing. How may of you home owners have had the pushy middle men calling your home and promising you everything under the sun and then some. Some, not all, of you should not judge because there might be a day when you find yourselves in the same situation
- 4 votes
#13 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 1:43 PM EDTMustang, try again now to refinance. The lenders weren't refinancing voluntarily because they were afraid they'd be sued (imagine that). The Bailout Plan now provides protection to these lenders from litigation to re-write loans. Good luck!
This is why people should take care of their FAMILY MEMBERS!!!!! Go check on your older family members, ASK them how they are doing! Take them some food weekly! Let them know you are there to HELP if they need it! Go with them to appointments for things like Mortgage Refinancing- Protect their interests! Because you know what, I you don't nobody else will! If everyone took care of their own family and looked out for each other there would be WAY less of this crap going on! Come on- you have time to go to Soccer Practice, you have money to spend on Starbucks and gym memberships, you have money to go out to eat! Take care of your relatives FIRST!
- 1 vote
Justme, that's just it. MORE people are taking care of their "own" now more than ever. Both sets of my grandparents lived independently (financially and otherwise) until their deaths. My parents are "barely scraping by," and one of my in-laws draws $800 a month on social security, has no assets, and relies on my husband and I for all of his financial needs, including his rent every month. You have NO idea how many Americans are "sucking it up" right now.
What you "see" and "hear" in this blog is frustration. How could this have happened? I think we're all just trying to get a grasp of how dire this situation really is, and is becoming more so ....
No, I don't feel that we're unique ... I believe there are many, many more Americans in the "same boat" of taking care of their own ...... "when" they can. Now, herein, lies the big question. ARE we going to still be able to?
Mustang:
Not too mention the number of jobs that have simply evaporated from this country. Moved to off shore locations where there is a cheaper workforce and little or no union protection. There are times that I believe the unions themselves have caused these problems, but without some sort of protection for the work force can you imagine how the corporations of greed would be treating their workers. Simply look at how they treated this elderly woman to line their pockets.
Sandra we have already discussed this with all of our family members- we have already made contingency plans for taking care of our entire family, so the answer to your question is Yes. Bottom line without our relatives, we ourselves would not be here! It is our responsibility to make sure our families are safe, sound, housed and fed, because the government has proven over and over that the promises they make to the citizens are just empty promises. If worse comes to worse, whoever is in the position of losing their home in our family has the open invitation to move in with other family members. That is and always has been a given and every member knows it. If there were a situation where some members were unable to afford food, they all know they can turn to the other family members for assistance. We share what we have with each other. Maybe my family is just not typical, I don't know. But I don't understand how someone could leave a 90 year old relative in such obvious need and not intervene to help.
- 1 vote
Justme, the poor 90-year-old lady very well could not have "any" family left on this Earth. Who knows?
It appears you have a very close knit family. Consider yourself 'very' lucky. I love my family, but I don't love them enough to come and live with me! Sorry, I have to draw the line some where ;)
Well said Mustangcat, so many have no clue how close they are, jobs are going fast and many of you are going to find yourself in same boat as this lady, no where to turn, noone to care cause it's all about money now days, very very sad !!
To all who have no compassion for this Lady, may you walk in her shoes, reach her age,
suffer her loses both in family, health, and income then let us with compassion konw
who is going to forgive you.
"3D"
- 5 votes
#14 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 1:48 PM EDTI don't understand this AT ALL! Ok so the woman is 90, so she shot herself out of desperation or whatever the reason was, maybe she is just mentally ill! Why the hell should her mortgage be FORGIVEN! What about people with small children that are being tossed out on the street because this government does not give a DAMN about the working people of this country, only the big businesses! This crap of "She would have no where to go" is BS too! If she is that poor she can go into an ALF for FREE! Admission is based on assets! Or why could she not go live with another relative??!! Or rent a room in another homeowners home that is struggling to make ends meet and needs the rent to help keep their home! Give me a break! This government preaches "personal responsibility" only so it can screw the majority of the people, when in reality the system is totally ARBITRARY!
- 1 vote
#15 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 1:59 PM EDTJustme, I would imagine that ALF, is some form of Assisted Living. Ain't nuthin' for, free, F-R-E-E BaBeee ;) Assisted Living is subsidized by the taxpayer.
Again, where's the story? The woman is flat out broke. She's now welfare. No matter how you look at it, the taxpayer now absorbs her costs.
More to come! Lots more to come .....
Maybe Rep. Dennis Kucinich and/or others of his party should pay off the loan, since they were the driving force behind this mess. Gotta loans to anyone thats want one, no matter that they can not qualify!
This ladies problems may not be over, she might owe state and federal taxes on the forgiven debt.
#17 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 2:05 PM EDTRandy agreed, the IRS will send her a bill for the Taxes owed on this forgiven debt.
- 1 vote
Randy, please google "Acorn Group," a leftwing militant organization that got a hunk of the bailout money to fund their shady tactics in getting bad mortgage loans for their poor folks.
The true fault lies with the lender, which by the way is the "sole" reason for the mess this economy is in. The lender was more concerned about making a buck on the transaction knowing that a default has no real consequence to that lender.
She did make a bad decission, all the way around, just like the people who jumped out of windows in the 1929 depression when they lost everything. Oh well!
- 2 votes
#18 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 2:08 PM EDTShe missed. No one should be forgiven anything. She should be evicted. I would be for sure.
- 1 vote
#19 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 2:14 PM EDTI agree!!!!!!
People today knowingly do wrong, then ask forgiveness.....Hum, there is only one true forgiveness and it aint happenin on this earth.
this shows where the fault actually is, and that is on the back of the mortgage lenders who provided this 90 year old woman, who was about 77 years old and most likely unemployed or receiving government assistance when she refinanced (more than once). However this doesnt release her from the responsibility for having to pay for her decisions, and if it does where does the line form?
#20 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 2:16 PM EDTIts amazing how we can just give our tax dollars to these banks who put these people in this position.. Sad the only way you can keep your house if you have to shoot yourself.. What has this country come too... I'm just tired of helping people who seem not want to help us out but playing the get rich fast game and the h*LL with everyone else!!!
#21 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 2:17 PM EDTHow long do you all think she is going to live? When she dies the mortgage company will own the house and sell it, in reality they are not losing any more money than taking it now. It is just a delay, and one that will probably work in their favor considering the current housing market. In a few years they may actually recoup more of the money.
There are people out there that make a living preying on the elderly. They go after those who don't know all the current laws, are alone and scared or have had their mental capacity diminish slightly over time. My mother works with the elderly and the stories are enough to sicken even the hard hearted. It's indecent. Not everyone still has living family to help them.
Most of these people didn't expect to live this long. Many pensions have gone bankrupt through the years. Prices have skyrocketed for even basic things like food and heat but their social security has not increased to deal with the disparity. It's easy to sit behind your computer and judge these people, with no real understanding of their situations.
We are all going to get older, and unless something is done about these people who prey on the elderly (insurance providers, banks, etc), like it or not that could be you.
- 1 vote
#22 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 2:21 PM EDTThe article said that the debt was forgiven. So I wonder if she will get a new loan to pay the IRS for the tax attributable to the debt forgiveness which is income under the tax law.
But..... some lender with fresh cash can make her a new loan to cover that. Whoops ..... here we go again
That doesn't mean the bank has given up claim on the property when she dies. If they haven't they may have included a stipulation that would prevent her from seeking a new loan. Honestly though with the loan paranoia the banking industry is going through I doubt she would be able to get one even if a stipulation wasn't put in.
Sepulchre, this woman needs an advocate to stand up for her. If the mortgage company is FORGIVING her mortgage, then there is no mortgage on the home when she dies, and the heirs will inherit a mortgage free home. They would not have any legal standing to come in after her death and claim ownership of her home. It would be mortgage free!
- 1 vote
Trust me on this, you can infact negotiate a contract where you can stipulate the specifics of the loan forgiveness. It may be that the company didn't but I doubt it.
I also think they only reason the company did this was publicity. They want to look sympathetic and they don't want to come off as the bad guy in this situation. The story was going to be public and better to look like the good guy. If they inspired public outrage some one might look harder at their predatory lending practices.
The question that needs to be answered is; how much money did Fannie Mae lose for forgiving this debt? This house is nearly forty years old, it would be helpful to know what the property is worth.
Where is her family? No mention of that. Are they waiting to inherit the house? I think if they are freeing her of her mortgage, then it should go back to the government, not the heirs to pay back the loan. My parents took loans out for their children (not me) and they both died last year with a mortgage of $25,000 and now we are all paying for that, even me who did not borrow any money from them. To top things off, he asked us to keep the house in the immediate family. There was no reason for this to happen and my anger took control of me, but I have finally let it go because it was killing me. Between the 2 of them, they had a monthly income of over $3,000. That my friends is not poor for retirees, but with their soft hearts, they just kept loaning money to bail the others out. 2 of them paid their loans a month before my dad died, but 2 still owe money, one owes the estate $61,000 and we will never see a penny of that---only the share he will get from the sale of the house. The finance company took advantage of my parents credit, but forgot their age, because they thought they would end up with a $120,000 house. I'm just grateful that my dad was a Christian and didn't kill himself over this, although I think it contributed to both of their deaths. I am blaming no one but my parents and their other children for this.
I think the children or grandchildren of this woman should be ashamed of themselves.
#23 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 2:26 PM EDTIt is highly possible you know that she has no living family. And there is nothing in the article indicate the bank has given up claim on the house when she dies, I seriously doubt they did.
- 1 vote
Box of Chocolates, all I can say is that you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your relatives ;) At least you can live knowing that you didn't take "advantage" of your parent's good hearts. We all have "to live" with the decisions and choices we make that impact other people's lives. I'd hate to know as an adult, I had to borrow money from my parents. To me, that would be so shameful ...
I agree with Sepulchre, it doesn't appear the 90-year-old woman had any relatives. If she does, they're probably in the "same situation" so many other Americans are in, they're probably barely keeping themselves afloat financially.
While this forgivness act takes on a show business reflection it still doesn't deal with the tens of thousands of other 90 year olds involved in forclosers all over our states. In addition, I've looked at all the other port and personal favors that were added into the 700 Billion Dollar so-called bailout bill simply to intice political holdouts to sign the bill.
I'm totally and completely ashamed of our country, our political parties and especiatly our President and his entire Administration. A President that invades a solvern country (Iraq) without even the slightest mention of any terrorist being there in forethought and then with the patreotes begin fighting back with intent to kill American soldiers Bush then gives them with the label, "TERRORIST." What a crock of BS. The only terrorist I know for sure is Bush himself.
America is in harms way.
#24 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 2:29 PM EDTI have a feeling that this was done as a public relations stunt. In an attempt to make the banks look more sympathetic, and probably in hopes of keeping people from looking at some of their predatory lending policies.
So the lession to take from this article is that if you are desperate and have a great human interest angle Fanny / Freddy will take pitty on you if you are lucky enough to live over a botched suicide attempt? If the husband was still alive and she had died would he have received the mortgage forgiveness? Will this tactic work if I am severely disabled and have a predatory variable interest rate loan I can not pay? Who will qualify for mortgage forgiveness under this ad hoc plan and just how badly do my facts have to be and how near death do I have to get to qualify for mortgage forgiveness?
Congress just authorized 700 billion dollars to bail out lenders with bad, nonperforming or under collateralized mortgage debt. It looks like the debt with less that adequate collateral value will be purchased at close to the full amount of the debt without regard to the value of the collateral.
There is not any part of the bailout law that is written to require any help or assistance to people like the woman in the article. But there were millions ear marked to help the wooden arrow industry.
About four years ago the Bankruptcy Code was changed to prevent revaluing mortgages that exceed the value of the house put up for collateral and which permitted the interest rate to be adjusted. This provision was removed from the bankruptcy law and opened the door to the type of predatory lending which followed in the ensuing years and contributed to the present problem.
It is time to change the bankruptcy law back to permit adjustment of mortgages. This will make for more sound lending practices and will provide relief to the millions of borrowers who have become prey to the predatory lending of the past 4 years.
Republicans staunchly resisted all attempts to provide that relief in the bailout bill. However, giving millions to the wooden arrow industry was no problem at all. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this picture?
- 2 votes
#25 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 2:30 PM EDTTexMan, just that when our guns are taken away from us, those wooden arrows are sure going to come in handy! ;)
- 2 votes
Sandra ...... see my name ....... in Texas they would have to pry them out of our cold dead hands. lol
- 1 vote
TexMan, sure bet when our President and Congress asks for the NEXT bailout (and it's coming), the NRA isn't going to be looking like such a crazy lot after all, huh??? Not to mention that it's just downright unconstitutional to take away the individual's "right" to bear arms.
"Hey, don't blame me, it was our Founding Fathers that said that ....." I kind of think in many ways, at least "one" of our Founding Fathers had to have been psychic ..... ;)
TexMan you have a good point, and Sandra-293107 how are you going to use arrows if you shoot yourself in the foot I don't think they will give you a house ...LOL
tou guys a heartless. sure i have to play by the rules so should she and i'am not saying she should get to stay in her home but the people should step in and help her find a place to stay every body has the right to have a roof over their head she had one for over 30 years she made a bad call and it bit her right in the but but we should have a heart and help her in any way we could.
#26 - Sun Oct 5, 2008 2:47 PM EDTJake ....... my point is this: SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE TO KEEP THIS FROM BEING THE STANDARD FOR SIMILARLY SITUATED PEOPLE WHO CAN NOT PAY THEIR MORTGAGE!!!
There has to be a solution to the bigger problem. I am happy that it worked out for this lady but it can not become the standard for obtaining mortgage relief.
Agreed Tex, people should not have to shoot themselves to get mortgage relief. The government should have added a clause to the bailout MANDATING ALL financial institutions with bad debt immediately renegotiate those loans.
- 1 vote
IT IS ABSOLUTELY DEPLORABLE THAT A MORTAGE COMPANY WOULD LET AN ELDERLY OR DISABLED PERSON HAVE TO GO TO SUCH EXTREMES. THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES WHILE THE CEO OF FREDDIE AND FANNIE MADE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OFF THEIR GREED. THIS GOES FOR ALL THE GREEDY CEO'S AND UPPER MANAGEMENT OF THIS COUNTRYS COMPANIES. I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THAT IS THERE IS SUCH A PLACE AS HE-L THEY SURELY WILL BURN IN IT ALONG WITH HITLER, STALIN, LENIN, BUSH, CHANEY, RICE, AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON. THEY WILL MAKE GOOD COMPANY DOWN THERE. I HOPE THAT THIS INCIDENT WILL LIVE IN THERE MINDS FOREVER BUT WAIT A MINUTE THE $10 MILLION DOLLAR PLUS SALARY PLUS THE SAME IN BENEFITS IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAT IS WHY WE DO NOT INVEST IN THE STOCK MARKET JUST PLAIN OWN REAL ESTATE WHERE WE ARE OUR OWN CEO, BOARD OF DIRECTORS, TREASURERS, ACCOUNTANTS, AND YES WE DO HAVE TOILET BOWL UNPLUGGERS DUTIES. HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY AND WEEK JIM HALL KANSAS CITY MISSOURI
- 1 vote
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